On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Main Garrett:
- Jan Crawford, Robert Costa, Scott MacFarlane, Ed O’Keefe and Caitlin Huey-Burns
- Dr. Leana Wen, former Baltimore well being commissioner.
- Aditya Bhave, senior ecomonist at Financial institution of America
- David Rubenstein, philanthropist and writer
Click on right here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MAJOR GARRETT: Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Face the Nation.
I am Main Garrett, in for Margaret Brennan.
As we shut out 2024, we, in fact, wish to stay up for the economic system, well being care, immigration, a lot extra, as Washington ushers in a brand new Congress and, importantly, a brand new administration.
We start with a Face the Nation custom, our year-end correspondents roundtable.
Becoming a member of us, chief authorized correspondent Jan Crawford, congressional correspondent Scott MacFarlane, chief election and marketing campaign correspondent Robert Costa, political correspondent Caitlin Huey-Burns, and senior White Home and political correspondent Ed O’Keefe.
It’s nice to have you ever all with us.
Scott MacFarlane, I wish to begin with you.
The brand new Congress can be sworn on this week. What place does Mike Johnson, the present speaker of the Home, discover himself in looking for reelection to that place?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: It is a tenuous place. It has the prospect and promise of getting excessive drama Friday, once they start the brand new Congress January 3 by selecting the brand new speaker.
One of the vital underappreciated and underreported problems with the 2024 election was this extremely slender margin Republicans preserved within the U.S. Home, much more slender than the one which gridlocked them over the previous two years.
And, in fact, the primary order of enterprise is selecting a speaker. Republicans have only one or two votes to spare on something. That has the potential for paralyzing issues. And we noticed two years in the past the speaker vote was like a – it is like Gilligan’s Island. It was presupposed to be a three- hour vote and ended up being a multi-arc drama with many divergent characters, not together with Thurston Howell.
(LAUGHTER)
SCOTT MACFARLANE: However here is the factor. It is simply the highest layer of this very treacherous cake for them is selecting a speaker, as a result of, what does this subsequent speaker must concede to win that put up?
We noticed over the past two years the prior speaker needed to concede positions on the pivotal Guidelines Committee to some contrarian voices within the Guidelines Committees, the place payments went to die, as an alternative of to get arrange for a vote. And that is why so many Democratic votes had been wanted for therefore many pivotal issues, as a result of the Guidelines Committee was jammed up by contrarians.
That would occur once more.
MAJOR GARRETT: Robert Costa, I wish to flip to you, as a result of, if he had been so inclined, president-elect Trump may make clear his choice right here. And that will ship an vital sign to these Republicans within the Home majority to be nonetheless on the fence about this, but he stays conspicuously silent.
ROBERT COSTA: That call is reflective of the dynamic proper now down at Mar-a-Lago, the president’s retreat in Florida.
There may be excessive drama, as Scott studies, on Capitol Hill. However, in Trump’s inside circle, it is nearly just like the low-key second season of a TV present. That is the way it’s been described to me by allies of president-elect Trump. He is being guided by Susie Wiles, his incoming chief of employees.
And she or he’s created, I am informed, this environment of calm in terms of among the nominees, the method, laying out the agenda for subsequent 12 months, high of the agenda, tax cuts, making an attempt to broaden these Trump tax cuts from 2017, in fact, mass deportations additionally a part of Trump’s plan, a border invoice as nicely.
And also you do have controversial nominees in Kash Patel for the FBI, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for Well being and Human Providers, amongst others. However, at its core, you have got a president-elect who’s now comfy with energy, comfy with the folks round him.
That is so totally different, Main, than what we noticed in 2016, once we had been protecting that transition interval. It had this theatrical ingredient, Trump welcoming folks to Bedminster for these showy appearances and interviews.
Now we hardly ever see the president-elect. He is firing off missives at occasions on TRUTH Social, his platform, however he is usually behind the scenes preparing for 2025, as a result of he is been right here earlier than. He is aware of what he desires to do.
MAJOR GARRETT: Ed O’Keefe, President Biden stays president of the USA, although some People may need to be reminded of that reality.
ED O’KEEFE: Sure.
MAJOR GARRETT: What’s forward for the president within the waning days of his presidency when it comes to journey and attainable pardons?
ED O’KEEFE: Effectively, he’s taking one last overseas journey, and it was one which we – these of us who adopted him a very long time anticipated would possibly occur. And that could be a journey to the Vatican to see the pope after which to see the Italian management as nicely.
They’ve been in far nearer contact than I believe many individuals recognize, as a result of the pope, just like the president, shares lots of the issues in regards to the state of the world, about what is going on on in Ukraine and Gaza.
MAJOR GARRETT: Battle, local weather change.
(CROSSTALK)
ED O’KEEFE: Completely, sure, and state of democracy and simply basic concern for social justice, which is…
MAJOR GARRETT: Refugee flows, precisely.
ED O’KEEFE: Sure, precisely.
And in order that can be a vital political assembly, but in addition an actual private capstone for the second Catholic president.
And it speaks as nicely to one of many issues he is been targeted on over the past a number of weeks and can proceed to be. We’re nonetheless ready to listen to extra about, for instance, pardons and clemency. Will there be extra of these? And can they be for the everyman? Or will they be for notable political figures like, for instance, Jesse Jackson Jr., the previous congressman from Illinois, or others who’ve ended up within the authorized system and possibly are well- identified and are actually interesting for some form of leniency or forgiveness?
And so these 37 demise row clemencies that we noticed earlier than Christmas, instance of what is to return and what he is desperate to do, and in addition instance of what little he can do, as a result of, in fact, Congress has little interest in working with him. They cannot even actually kind out what to do with themselves, however – so he is utilizing the manager privileges that he has in these waning weeks.
MAJOR GARRETT: Jan, as you already know higher than anybody at this desk, this final 12 months was a conflict of regulation and politics, not like something now we have seen in our fashionable American historical past.
The judicial system in our nation, in response to Gallup, 35 p.c confidence, 20 p.c under our peer international locations, different free market democracies. How a lot of that could be a reflection of this conflict, the Supreme Court docket, or only a sense that our judicial system has turn into, within the phrases of somebody now we have all come to know, two-tiered?
JAN CRAWFORD: You understand, that is a tough query to reply, as a result of I believe you’ve got a…
MAJOR GARRETT: We at all times provide the best ones, Jan.
(LAUGHTER)
JAN CRAWFORD: However I’ll strive, Main, as a result of I believe it goes – you’ve got to look previous simply this previous 12 months and go additional again.
I believe it actually began and took off within the wake of the Dobbs resolution, the courtroom’s ruling that overturned Roe v. Wade. The outrage over that call was so excessive that you simply noticed, I believe, a fairly calculated effort to undermine legitimacy of the Supreme Court docket by Democrats, Senate Democrats, for instance, hearings, tales about scandals, a few of which had been fairly overblown, to say the least.
So, that has an affect on public opinion. The general public begins to imagine that this courtroom is corrupt, that that is – it is on the take, none of which is true. I imply, that is nonetheless a courtroom. It’s possible you’ll disagree with their choices. It is a very conservative courtroom. It’s not a corrupt courtroom.
These are 9 justices who’ve very totally different views on tips on how to interpret the Structure who’re form of on this Titanic battle over regulation, not politics.
Even the immunity resolution, I imply, that call was so misreported to say that the courtroom was going to avoid wasting Trump from a prison trial. No, it wasn’t. That was by no means the choice. In actual fact, that call goes to assist defend Joe Biden from any future prosecution by Donald Trump if he wished to try this.
So, once we have a look at public opinion polls, positive, the courtroom’s taken a success, however that is true through the years. The courtroom usually takes a success. So do different establishments. And the courtroom’s opinion – courtroom’s public opinion stays a lot larger than our different establishments, together with the White Home, Congress, and by far the information media.
MAJOR GARRETT: Congress at 17 p.c, in response to Gallup.
Caitlin, Jan talked about the Dobbs resolution. One of many issues that roiled by the political calendar 12 months of 2024 was how vital, how impactful would that call be on turnout and the last word final result of the election?
However, as you traveled the nation, you saved telling us, sure, it is an vital situation, however there are different issues on the minds of ladies voters on this nation.
CAITLIN HUEY-BURNS: Sure, we at all times say that voters have the capability to consider lots of various things without delay.
And we noticed, within the wake of that call within the midterms, that was high of thoughts for folks. It was the primary method to form of train their views throughout the nation on this situation. However, this time round, voters had alternative ways to specific their emotions in regards to the Dobbs resolution.
Lots of them had poll measures of their states, a few these states being battleground states, that they may vote for codifying abortion rights into their state regulation and in addition vote for Donald Trump, as a result of they believed in his views on the economic system, on immigration, or no less than that he may resolve a few of their issues about them.
And as I spoke to ladies throughout the nation, as all of us spent the entire 12 months speaking to voters and actually listening to voters, lots of ladies talked to me about how involved they had been about security, in regards to the economic system, lots of them chargeable for their household’s budgets, paying the payments, going to the grocery retailer, these sorts of elementary issues.
And, additionally, it was form of a reminder that now we have been treating ladies as form of a monolithic group within the wake of Dobbs. And this election confirmed that it is not as such, that they do care lots about security, the economic system. These had been overarching points, however additionally they do care about ladies’s rights, abortion rights, however they only had different avenues to specific that.
And that is actually what helped. And Donald Trump additionally modified his positions, no less than to fulfill a few of these voters, no less than that I spoke to.
MAJOR GARRETT: Robert, Caitlin introduced up ladies’s issues about safety. That flows by immigration.
I’m wondering what your perspective is on this on-line feud that is gone on, on for the final three or 4 days between components of the MAGA universe over H- 1B visas, that are basically visas put aside for high-skilled laborers, Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, and nominally president-elect Trump on the aspect of that, exhausting proper nativist components of the MAGA motion utilizing expletives on social media usually reserved for his or her political foes, not for these within the MAGA tent, assailing each other.
What do you make of all of that?
ROBERT COSTA: The coalition that lifted Donald Trump again to energy included Silicon Valley executives. Elon Musk, Trump inside circle members say, deserves lots of credit score for pouring some huge cash within the last months into the marketing campaign.
However on the finish of the day, this was a marketing campaign the place so many citizens at rally after rally we lined had been holding up indicators that mentioned “Mass Deportations Now.” The message was apparent, it was in your face.
And for – the concept that president-elect Trump goes to again away from his immigration place due to some whisper in his ear from a Silicon Valley billionaire, it is simply not occurring, primarily based on my reporting.
MAJOR GARRETT: And, Scott, in a short time, do you assume that – now we have bought about 30 seconds earlier than we have to go to interrupt. How a lot do you assume that can be part of the early congressional dialog?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: I believe this battle over the debt restrict which Elon Musk weighed in on goes to be the primary throw-down of 2025 and affect the primary 12 months of Trump’s time period, as a result of they’ll want Democratic votes to boost the debt ceiling.
That will not fulfill the Elon Musks of the world. I am unsure how Trump circumvents Democratic concessions for the debt ceiling.
MAJOR GARRETT: After we come again, you already know it, you adore it, predictions, greatest story, issues that had been undercovered with our excellent correspondents panel.
We can be again in only one second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MAJOR GARRETT: Welcome again to Face the Nation and our correspondents roundtable.
Predictions.
Caitlin Huey-Burns.
CAITLIN HUEY-BURNS: I believe the most important story to look at this coming 12 months is how the president-elect when he turns into president handles immigration.
We talked lots about how the economic system was the overarching theme of this election. Immigration is what Trump made his not solely closing – closing argument on, however his total marketing campaign was actually rooted in immigration.
So what this appears to be like like, we noticed in our polling majority assist for mass deportations. What does that really appear to be? And the way do they deal with that when we see what that appears like on tv, how they’ve folks explaining their coverage, and what these tales appear to be due to that, and whether or not the bottom is happy and whether or not most of the people will get what they voted for on that.
MAJOR GARRETT: Jan, 2025 prediction.
JAN CRAWFORD: I’ll return to the courtroom.
I believe that Donald Trump will in all probability get his fourth nomination to the Supreme Court docket both this 12 months or possibly subsequent 12 months, when…
MAJOR GARRETT: As a result of somebody retires.
Who?
JAN CRAWFORD: Justice Sam Alito.
MAJOR GARRETT: Justice Sam Alito.
JAN CRAWFORD: He was nominated, took the bench in 2006, after almost twenty years on the courtroom.
MAJOR GARRETT: Robert Costa.
ROBERT COSTA: Most significantly, Marcus Freeman and the Preventing Irish will win the Sugar Bowl on January 1.
(LAUGHTER)
JAN CRAWFORD: Now, that is usually my prediction with Alabama.
ROBERT COSTA: I am entering into your territory. However…
JAN CRAWFORD: I am completely happy to provide it to you.
ROBERT COSTA: Governing by disaster in 2025.
Ed, once we first met over a decade in the past, we had been protecting disaster on Capitol Hill. Disaster persists. Such a handful – and Caitlin Huey-Burns as nicely. And Scott was there as nicely.
Look, they solely have a handful of seats within the Home for the Republican majority. They’ll solely accomplish that a lot, as Scott mentioned, debt restrict battle on the horizon, spending fights. Deja vu. That tradition of disaster, governing to the brink of discussions is right here once more.
MAJOR GARRETT: Ed O’Keefe.
ED O’KEEFE: I’ll make the firmer prediction that, primarily based on all that chaos, Speaker Johnson will not be speaker by the top of 2025.
Did that just a few years in the past on Paul Ryan, and it labored. So, be careful, Speaker Johnson. Nothing private.
MAJOR GARRETT: Watch out, Speaker Johnson. Be suggested.
ED O’KEEFE: However simply have a look at – have a look at what faces him.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERT COSTA: … actual quickly.
(LAUGHTER)
ED O’KEEFE: The opposite one actual fast, Washington Commanders will get a stadium right here within the District of Columbia, as a result of that congressional vote that approved land…
(CROSSTALK)
MAJOR GARRETT: Occurred proper earlier than Congress adjourned.
ED O’KEEFE: It positive did. And it was an awesome shock at D.C. It’s going to occur this 12 months.
MAJOR GARRETT: Scott MacFarlane.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: Lengthy earlier than the following election, there can be some folks departing Washington voluntarily. It is a difficult setting to be an elected official.
They’re getting 1000’s of threats a 12 months on their lives, on their households. The journey is exhausting. And we’re coming into a comparatively polarizing second with Trump coming again into workplace. You are going to see lots of retirements in odd-numbered years, together with 2025.
JAN CRAWFORD: I believe that is one motive why you are going to see Justice Alito step down.
(CROSSTALK)
MAJOR GARRETT: One of many issues we additionally do within the year-end correspondents roundtable is dig into what was undercovered or underreported.
Jan?
JAN CRAWFORD: Undercovered and underreported, that will be, to me, Joe Biden’s apparent cognitive decline that turned plain within the televised debate.
MAJOR GARRETT: On the presidential debate with Donald Trump.
JAN CRAWFORD: Unquestioned.
And it is beginning to emerge now that his advisers form of managed his limitations, which has been reported in “The Wall Avenue Journal,” for 4 years. And but he insisted that he may nonetheless run for president. We must always have rather more forcefully questioned whether or not he was match for workplace for one more 4 years, which may have led to a major for the Democrats.
It may have modified the scope of your entire election. But nonetheless, extremely, we learn in “The Washington Publish” that his advisers are saying that he regrets that he dropped out of the race, that he thinks he may have overwhelmed Trump. And I believe that’s both delusional or they’re gaslighting the American folks.
ROBERT COSTA: President Biden has mentioned repeatedly he was sick throughout the debate June 27 in Atlanta and he is at all times been tremendous and he leaves tremendous.
That’s his place, the place of a lot of his high aides as nicely, regardless that there may be that reporting.
(CROSSTALK)
MAJOR GARRETT: Robert Costa.
ROBERT COSTA: The most important story that is underreported, the battle for working voters throughout the nation.
I spent lots of time this 12 months with Shawn Fain, the top of the UAW. That is the battle of the long run. Who’s going to win over that one who’s aligned with labor? Are the – the commercial employee on this nation. Is it going to be the Democratic Occasion or the Republican Occasion? It stays a key story, deserves extra consideration.
MAJOR GARRETT: Caitlin Huey-Burns.
CAITLIN HUEY-BURNS: I discussed how we lined ladies voters, but in addition I believe there may be a facet to which we underestimated or maybe the general public underestimated how Trump’s persona wasn’t as a lot of a burden to him.
And, in some methods, it turned out to be a profit with low-propensity voters. And speaking to the Trump marketing campaign all through the cycle and reporting on it, they had been making this guess that, if he leaned into his persona and made no qualms about it, made no apologies about it, that will form of communicate to this authenticity issue, this premium that low- propensity voters, these not inclined to take part in elections, may be inclined in direction of.
It was an enormous guess. It paid off. And it’ll stay – the most important query I’ve is whether or not Republicans can replicate any of that, as a result of a lot of their political wins this 12 months are distinctive to Donald Trump himself.
MAJOR GARRETT: Scott MacFarlane, underreported.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: The scope and dimension and political affect of those forthcoming January 6 pardons.
Trump has by no means specified if it is all people or simply some folks. Will it embody individuals who gassed and beat law enforcement officials with baseball bats, or will it simply be those that pleaded responsible to misdemeanors? He is by no means been pressed to specify if it is all or some. And what is the political affect?
Did his voters actually need that? Does he acquire political capital or lose it if he pardons everybody?
MAJOR GARRETT: Ed O’Keefe.
ED O’KEEFE: As soon as once more, we do not cowl the Western Hemisphere sufficient and why it’s that individuals come from the far reaches of South America.
MAJOR GARRETT: What’s the gravitational pull of the USA in these explicit international locations?
ED O’KEEFE: Precisely.
And it is going to be extra vital than ever within the coming 12 months that we proceed to discover and clarify why it’s they proceed to take action, regardless of the threats of being despatched again.
And watch additionally the cooperation between lots of these international locations, particularly in Central America, with the USA and the intrigue they’ve over the primary Latino secretary of state, essentially the most senior Latino ever to serve in an administration and within the presidential line of succession, Marco Rubio.
I heard inside days of the election from Latin American governments fairly desperate to get on the nice aspect of Marco Rubio as a result of they’re thrilled to know there can be extra consideration paid to the hemisphere, as there needs to be.
MAJOR GARRETT: And there can be consideration paid when it comes to accepting these this administration incoming intends to deport.
ED O’KEEFE: Sends them again.
Sure, that – as a result of they perceive that is the gateway.
MAJOR GARRETT: To higher relations with this administration.
ED O’KEEFE: Sure, that, in the event you begin with that, and be certain that they’re being handled pretty on their manner again, that they are going to in all probability find yourself taking them.
No formal agreements but, however they’re prepared to have the dialog.
MAJOR GARRETT: No higher method to shut out a calendar 12 months than to have the correspondents roundtable right here at Face the Nation. It has been my honor and privilege to have you ever all right here.
Ed O’Keefe, Caitlin Huey-Burns, Scott MacFarlane, Robert Costa, Jan Crawford, my due to all of you.
We can be proper again with much more Face the Nation. Please stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MAJOR GARRETT: Final week, the U.S. reported its first extreme case of fowl flu present in a affected person in Louisiana.
For extra, we’re joined by Dr. Leana Wen. She is the previous Baltimore well being commissioner.
Dr. Leana Wen, it is nice to have you ever with us.
So, fowl flu, is that this report out of Louisiana worrisome? And, if that’s the case, why?
DR. LEANA WEN (Former Baltimore Well being Commissioner): Effectively, it is yet one more signal that the drumbeat of fowl flu coming nearer to people is changing into a serious menace.
So, we have already seen this 12 months that there have been quite a few mammalian species near people that now have fowl flu outbreaks. We’ve outbreaks in poultry in all 50 states. Sixteen states have outbreaks in cattle. In California, within the final 30 days, there have been greater than 300 herds that examined optimistic.
And now now we have 66 circumstances of fowl flu in people, and that is nearly definitely a big undercount, as a result of now we have not been doing almost sufficient testing. So, we actually do not know the extent of fowl flu that is on the market in people.
However this explicit case, it is somebody who’s severely sick, however not solely that. Researchers have remoted the virus on this particular person who’s sick in Louisiana, they usually discovered that this explicit pressure of the virus seems to have acquired mutations that make it extra more likely to bind to airway receptors.
Fowl flu has been round for a very long time, however it hasn’t…
MAJOR GARRETT: About 30 years.
DR. LEANA WEN: Sure, precisely.
However it hasn’t been a serious situation in people, as a result of whereas it spreads amongst birds, it hasn’t actually unfold amongst mammals. However now there may be this mutation. And there is one other concern now, Main, too which is that we’re in flu season, and it is attainable {that a} single individual may have fowl flu and seasonal flu on the similar time.
MAJOR GARRETT: One thing known as reassortment…
DR. LEANA WEN: That is proper. That is proper.
MAJOR GARRETT: … the place issues change due to one sickness changing into one other sickness by reassortment of a mutated virus.
DR. LEANA WEN: That is proper.
And so the viruses may alternate genes. You can develop a brand new hybrid virus. And in the event you now have a virus that is extra contagious and causes extra extreme illness, that is when it turns into a serious menace to humankind.
MAJOR GARRETT: What needs to be occurring within the Biden administration proper now that is not occurring?
DR. LEANA WEN: Sure, there are two important issues that they need to be doing within the days that they’ve left.
The primary is to get testing on the market. I really feel like we should always have discovered our lesson from COVID that, simply because we aren’t testing, it does not imply that the virus is not there. It simply signifies that we aren’t in search of it. We needs to be having speedy exams, dwelling exams, out there to all farmworkers, to their households, for the clinicians taking good care of them, in order that we aren’t ready for public labs and CDC labs to inform us what’s fowl flu or not.
And the second crucial factor is, this isn’t like the start of COVID, the place we had been coping with a brand new virus, we did not have a vaccine. There really is a vaccine developed already towards H5N1. The Biden administration has contracted with producers to make nearly 5 million doses of the vaccine.
Nonetheless, they haven’t requested the FDA to authorize the vaccine. There’s analysis completed on it. They might get this approved now, and in addition get the vaccine out so – and to farmworkers and to susceptible folks.
I believe that is the appropriate method, as a result of we do not know what the Trump administration goes to be doing round fowl flu. If they’ve folks coming in with anti-vaccine stances, may they maintain up vaccine authorization? If they do not wish to know the way a lot fowl flu is on the market, may they withhold testing?
I imply, that is a chance, and I believe the Biden administration within the remaining days ought to get testing and vaccines broadly out there, in order that no less than it empowers state and native well being officers and clinicians to do the appropriate factor for his or her sufferers.
MAJOR GARRETT: Dr. Wen, is fowl flu in people tremendous harmful?
DR. LEANA WEN: Effectively, the World Well being Group estimates that, in prior outbreaks of the fowl flu, that the mortality charge is 52 p.c, 52 p.c.
Nonetheless, within the – on this most up-to-date outbreak, plainly most circumstances have been delicate, and possibly some folks even have asymptomatic an infection. However the query is, we do not know what occurs when fowl flu impacts extra susceptible people.
Folks contaminated up to now within the U.S. have been primarily farmworkers, who’re working, presumably typically wholesome, versus what occurs whenever you get to youngsters, to pregnant ladies, to older people with persistent sicknesses.
We do not know the way lethal, how harmful fowl flu goes to be for these people. And, once more, that is another reason why we do not need it to unfold and purchase extra mutations.
MAJOR GARRETT: Thirty seconds.
Norovirus is what you name it. Abdomen bug is what I’d name it. Numbers are surging. It is the vacations. What ought to folks do to guard themselves?
DR. LEANA WEN: Wash your fingers rather well, particularly if you are going to buffets. Wash your fingers in the event you’re touching generally touched surfaces earlier than you contact your mouth, earlier than you contact your nostril.
Norovirus is the commonest foodborne sickness right here within the U.S. It’s extremely exhausting to keep away from as soon as it is in your loved ones. And, additionally, do not put together meals in the event you’re having vomiting and diarrhea abdomen cramps, since you do not wish to unfold it to different folks.
MAJOR GARRETT: Dr. Leana Wen, thanks a lot to your experience. We actually recognize it.
We could have extra questions for Dr. Wen once we come again, however, first, we will take a fast break.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MAJOR GARRETT: We can be proper again with Dr. Leana Wen and much more Face the Nation.
Please stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MAJOR GARRETT: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION. We return to our dialog with Dr. Leana Wen.
Physician, you talked about vaccines and testing within the context of fowl flu and preparations due to this fact. Vaccines and testings had been a part of the Covid dialog and the Trump administration, when it was in cost.
What degree of concern do you have got about among the folks appointed by President-elect Trump to incoming public well being positions concerning problems with vaccine, testing, public well being, efficacy?
DR. LEANA WEN, (Former Baltimore Well being Commissioner): I believe that there are some folks coming into this administration who’re very competent. For instance, Dr. Marty Markary, a Johns Hopkins surgeon, now we have labored collectively for the final ten-plus years on points like hospital medical error (ph). He is an unbiased thinker who actually listens to science and is prepared to alter his thoughts when there may be new proof that emerges.
However I’ve lots of concern, and I’ve spoken to my colleagues in drugs and public well being, and I believe all of us share this concern particularly about Robert F. Kennedy, the nominee to be the top of Well being and Human Providers. Kennedy has espoused many views previously which might be anti- vaccine. In actual fact, he is been one of many main anti-vaxing advocates within the nation, if not on the earth over the past couple of a long time.
He is additionally somebody who has made his profession from being an activist and never a scientist. And what I imply is that, in the event you’re a scientist, even you probably have deeply held convictions, try to be prepared to alter your thoughts if there are new information which might be offered.
It is a incontrovertible fact that childhood vaccines are protected and they’re lifesaving. A CDC evaluation simply now discovered that the childhood vaccination have saved over 1.1 million youngsters’s lives over the past 20 years. Based on a Lancet (ph) research, childhood vaccines saved 154 million lives globally over the past 50 years. I imply these are information. And it is very regarding to have somebody who does not imagine within the – in how science works and fundamental scientific rules to be in command of our nation’s preeminent scientific and medical businesses.
MAJOR GARRETT: With that perspective, do you imagine it is extra crucial than you described earlier for the Biden administration to maneuver ahead on fowl flu vaccinations and testing?
DR. LEANA WEN: Effectively, that is precisely it, I do not wish to watch for the Trump administration to probably maintain up the vaccines saying that they need extra proof. Look, proof is at all times good and information are at all times good. New analysis is at all times good. However you additionally must weigh that towards a possible disaster as we may very well be having for fowl flu the way in which that we had for Covid.
There is not any motive why we should always maintain off on getting extra testing. We have to know the way a lot fowl flu there may be on the market. We have to know if there are new mutations which might be being developed. Different international locations additionally must know in order that they will put together as nicely.
And I believe it is a main drawback that within the U.S. now we have been holding again on testing and in addition holding again on getting the vaccines deployed which might be already developed.
MAJOR GARRETT: Dr. Leana Wen, thanks a lot to your experience. Thanking you twice. And a Comfortable New Yr to you.
DR. LEANA WEN: Thanks. To you, too, Main.
MAJOR GARRETT: We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MAJOR GARRETT: We flip now to the economic system and what to anticipate in 12 months 2025. We accomplish that with Financial institution of America senior economist Aditya Bhave.
Aditya, good morning. It is nice to see you.
I’ve lined lots of presidential transitions. There’s at all times an evaluation by the outgoing president about what sort of economic system he is giving to his successor. That is a political dialog. Objectively, what’s the economic system the incoming Trump administration inheriting?
ADITYA BHAVE (Senior U.S. Economist, Financial institution of America): Good morning. Thanks for having me.
So, we predict the economic system has actually stable momentum going into subsequent 12 months. You may have a look at our inside card knowledge, for instance, that reveals a pleasant acceleration in spending going into the vacations. You may as well have a look at the TSA on airport visitors, and that appears actually robust across the vacation interval as nicely.
You may as well take into consideration issues through a wider lens. Begin in 2022. That was a 12 months wherein GDP grew by only one p.c. CPI inflation peaked at 9 p.c. And the entire speak again then was stagflation, when, not if, is a recession going to reach. Why are staff quiet quitting. And you then have a look at what occurred over the next two years, proper. This was fairly sudden and in a really nice manner. Three p.c GDP progress. Inflation coming down. Labor productiveness transferring up. So, all positives that depart us optimistic going into subsequent 12 months that we are able to proceed to develop above 2 p.c, albeit with considerably sticky inflation.
MAJOR GARRETT: Is there any bigger x consider 2025 than the size and scope of promised mass deportations of the Trump administration?
ADITYA BHAVE: From a market perspective, I believe the 2 greatest points will really be fiscal coverage and commerce coverage. And there is lots of uncertainty round these as nicely, simply as there may be round immigration coverage. So, with fiscal coverage, you had this dialog in your final phase, proper, the bulk for Republicans within the Home could be very, very slender. So, in the event that they wish to prolong the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, they wish to do extra fiscal stimulus, which we predict will in all probability finally get completed, they’ve a really slim margin to work with.
After which with commerce coverage, we actually want to know, you already know, how a lot of the tariffs that President-elect Trump has threatened are literally going to be applied versus how a lot is a negotiating instrument, proper, so how a lot is transactional.
MAJOR GARRETT: And for mass deportations, how a lot do you concern that might have an effect on the labor market and our nation, that’s to say put upward stress on costs as a result of if there may be mass deportations and office inspections, plenty of staff in agriculture, building, meat processing and different important industries may very well be pulled out of these sectors.
ADITYA BHAVE: So, I believe it is – our base (ph) case is that there can be a slowdown within the stream of immigrants, proper? It is tougher to know what’s going to really occur round deportations.
From an financial perspective, a employee can also be a shopper, so there are some down dangers to financial exercise if there’s a big change within the inhabitants, proper? That is simply math.
When it comes to pressures in particular sectors, it is actually going to rely upon how issues play out. Sure, there may very well be labor shortages in sure sectors, however it’s very exhausting to know at this stage.
MAJOR GARRETT: Many CEOs I hearken to say that they count on the tariffs and regulatory aid to form of wash themselves out, which means basically, you place them collectively, it is benign on the U.S. economic system. Is that your perspective?
ADITYA BHAVE: I believe that is about proper. If you happen to have a look at the 4 key coverage points that we have been targeted on, as I mentioned earlier, commerce, fiscal coverage, immigration coverage and deregulation, we predict they will roughly wash out. However once more, the start line is fairly useful, proper? So, we predict that we are able to proceed to develop at round 2 to 2.5 p.c this – the approaching 12 months, in addition to in 2026.
MAJOR GARRETT: So, in studying year-end summaries, “The Economist,” “The Wall Avenue Journal” and “The Washington Publish,” all in their very own manner, warned that the inventory market could also be overvalued, could also be to exuberant. Do you share any of these issues?
ADITYA BHAVE: I am not an fairness analyst, so it is exhausting for me to day, to provide a particular quantity. Our fairness strategists do assume that shares can proceed to run as much as round 6,600, 6,700 by the top of the 12 months.
What you’ll be able to say is that, clearly, there’s been a reasonably aggressive run- up in tech shares, however it isn’t of the identical scale that we noticed within the late ’90s if we’re actually apprehensive a couple of comparable bubble.
MAJOR GARRETT: What impact do you imagine cryptocurrencies and synthetic intelligence will play within the international economic system in 2025?
ADITYA BHAVE: So, in terms of A.I., I believe there’s two issues to be mentioned. The precise affect of A.I. adoption might be going to indicate up fairly slowly within the knowledge. So, I do not know that we’ll essentially see that in 2025 or 2026. It may be a narrative for just a few years down the road.
However what has been actually impactful already, and doubtless can be rather more impactful within the coming years, is simply laying the groundwork for A.I., proper? So, in the event you see the will increase in funding in knowledge facilities, and you concentrate on what all that requires, proper?
MAJOR GARRETT: Sure. We have to –
ADITYA BHAVE: It requires supplies. It requires power provide.
MAJOR GARRETT: Aditya, we have to go. Pardon – pardon me.
ADITYA BHAVE: It requires labor, you – you place – positive. Positive.
MAJOR GARRETT: Sure, I am sorry to chop you off. We’ve a tough break we have to get to.
Aditya Bhave from Financial institution of America, Comfortable New Yr and thanks a lot for being with us.
We’ll be proper again in only a second.
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MAJOR GARRETT: In 22 days Donald Trump can be sworn in because the nation’s forty seventh president, solely the second to serve two nonconsecutive phrases.
For extra perspective on essentially the most highly effective place on the earth, we spoke with David Rubenstein, the co-founder and co-chairman of the Carlyle Group. His new guide, “The Highest Calling,” research the highs and lows of a few of this nation’s most consequential presidents.
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MAJOR GARRETT: How would you evaluate, primarily based in your research of the presidency, our unsettled occasions now to unsettled occasions previous?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN (Co-Founder and Co-Chairman, The Carlyle Group): Effectively, nothing is as unhealthy because the Civil Struggle, once we had 3 p.c of our inhabitants killed and the combating in Washington was so unhealthy that about 60 totally different occasions members of Congress hit different members of Congress on the ground of the Congress. So, we’re not fairly there but.
Clearly, although, we’re going into some uncharted waters as a result of now we have a president coming again who had been president earlier than. That hadn’t occurred since Grover Cleveland was re-elected in 1892. And Trump has bought extra energy than I believe many individuals would have thought by the advantage of his victory dimension. And I do assume he will act like he is bought a mandate and Washington is bracing for what is going on to occur.
MAJOR GARRETT: Associated to that, earlier than the election outcomes had been identified, polls indicated fairly constantly that Trump supporters had been afraid if Harris would win, Harris supporters had been afraid if Trump would win.
Primarily based in your research of this establishment, the presidency, are you able to recall a time the place that concern of an final result was as prevalent because it was main into this election?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, there have been a pair occasions when folks actually had been afraid that the following individual coming in that was the alternative get together would actually damage the nation in some ways. Clearly, my former boss, Jimmy Carter, actually feared Ronald Reagan. He thought that Ronald Reagan was going to do – undo most of the issues that Carter had completed. Clearly, Reagan received by a landslide.
And you’ve got seen different occasions when this has occurred as nicely. So, for instance, when FDR received the primary time, Herbert Hoover couldn’t imagine that this man, Herbert Hoover, had been such a distinguished American earlier than he was president, and whereas he was president he had issues, however he was a really distinguished individual. He by no means took FDR significantly. And FDR did not actually take Hoover that significantly. He refused to actually meet with him, basically, or met with him briefly they usually simply did not need something to do with him – one another.
MAJOR GARRETT: You talked about Grover Cleveland. There’s not a chapter within the guide about Grover Cleveland. Is there something that retroactively fascinates you in regards to the Cleveland presidency now that Trump has returned to workplace, or are you equally fascinated by the point wherein he was president, the Gilded Age?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Grover Cleveland was a Democrat, a former governor of New York, very nicely revered, however he misplaced the election in 1888, and he got here again in 1892. Now, one of many issues we do not actually know is whether or not a president, when he has a second time period after he is been out of workplace, whether or not he’ll be brisker, whether or not he’ll convey higher folks in, whether or not he’ll be extra skilled.
For instance, Grover Cleveland’s second time period was fairly profitable. And, you already know, possibly Trump’s can be as nicely.
MAJOR GARRETT: One of many issues the nation struggled with this final 18 months or so was the collision of politics and the regulation. Do you assume there are any classes to be discovered from this conflict and the politics that got here from the conflict of making an attempt to indict and take a look at somebody who had been president of the USA and was aspiring to that workplace once more?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: I believe there’s a feeling amongst many individuals that it wasn’t a good suggestion to indict the president of the USA. I believe the trial in New York, the place Trump was convicted, I believe actually helped him in his election effort. And I believe there are numerous people who find themselves – who’re Trump supporters who imagine that the indictments that got here out of the particular prosecutor, Jack Smith, had been actually political as nicely.
And so I believe there’s – each side really feel that the opposite aspect is actually speaking previous one another. The people who find themselves within the Justice Division now really feel that these indictments had been truthful and proper and had a particular prosecutor and so forth. The Trump folks imagine they had been fully political. I hope going ahead that the Justice Division isn’t seen as political as a result of one of many strengths of this nation has been the rule of regulation, and I hope that the Justice Division that is coming in now will proceed that custom.
MAJOR GARRETT: Do you have got a president in thoughts who, primarily based in your research, grew in your regard and a president in your thoughts who, primarily based in your research, bought extra diminished?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Harry Truman left workplace extraordinarily unpopular, very unpopular, and he was regarded as an inappropriate (ph) successor to the good FDR. Now, due to books by David McCollough and different individuals who have written nice books about Truman, folks see him as considered one of our nice presidents as a result of post-World Struggle II he helped finish the conflict as a result of he dropped the atomic bomb, which many individuals say was a mistake, however ki would say many historians assume it was essential to keep away from –
MAJOR GARRETT: And he by no means doubted?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: He by no means doubted. He by no means had self-doubt. Self-doubt was considered one of – was not considered one of his factor. He at all times believed it was the appropriate resolution. However he additionally was chargeable for NATO, the U.N., the World Financial institution, the IMF, and the CIA, which he created as nicely. All these items he created
MAJOR GARRETT: And the popularity of Israel.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Sure, he acknowledged Israel, regardless that his secretary of state threatened to resign over it. So, he was an individual who has actually risen up.
An individual who’s gone down, I’d say, or two which have gone down lots. One is Andrew Jackson. Keep in mind, Democrats used to say, we will have a Jefferson-Jackson day dinner. You do not have that anymore as a result of Jackson is now broadly seen as being racist and really anti-Native American, and he actually did many issues that I believe killed lots of people, significantly within the Native American group. So, he is probably not nicely revered as we speak by students.
One other individual I’d say is – is that – whose popularity has gone down is Woodrow Wilson. Woodrow Wilson was the good reformer after being president at Princeton, two years later he is – he is governor of New Jersey, then president of the USA.
Nonetheless, he now’s broadly seen as having completed two issues that had been actually huge errors. One, he resegregated the federal workforce and had been built-in. Two, and that is very damaging I believe as nicely, he – he had a stroke and with about 18 months to go, he could not actually do what he had completed earlier than. He hid that from the general public, and his spouse basically turned a shadow president. She was actually making choices and deciding issues that possibly he ought to have determined, and the general public did not know this. And that was an enormous drawback.
MAJOR GARRETT: You usually ask biographers what query they’d most wish to pose to the topic of their presidential biography. Let me broaden on that. If you happen to may go to dinner with any president, who wouldn’t it be, and what query would you wish to ensure you bought answered?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: No doubt, the best president and the best American ever is Abraham Lincoln. He was an individual who – was not an abolitionist however in the end got here to free the slaves by the Emancipation Proclamation. And he additionally received the Civil Struggle even though many individuals within the north did not actually wish to combat the Civil Struggle. They’d say, let the south go, we’ll have our personal nation. Lincoln mentioned, no, we will maintain the union collectively. And he did that. We misplaced 3 p.c of our inhabitants within the conflict, however he saved the union collectively and I believe made the USA a stronger nation because of this.
We ended slavery finally due to the thirteenth modification. However, most significantly, he did it with humility. He did not run round saying, look, I simply received the Civil Struggle. I simply did the Gettysburg Tackle. Is not that an awesome speech? He did not try this. He did not brag about it. He was very humble. And I believe he had a humorousness and a way of perspective that could be a actually good factor for presidents.
And I wish to ask him, do you have got any regrets about not having freed the slaves earlier? Do you have got any regrets about not eliminating a few of your generals earlier who weren’t superb? And he waited a pair years earlier than he bought Ulysses S. Grant in.
Grant can also be an individual I ought to point out. He had essentially the most wonderful meteoric rise of just about anyone who’s turn into president. He was promoting firewood on the streets of St. Louis in 1860. The conflict breaks out in 1861, kind of, and eight years later he is president of the USA. I imply it is simply wonderful.
MAJOR GARRETT: You talked about humility. George W. Bush informed you in your interview with him that that was an important attribute a president can possession. I’ve learn different phrases which might be vital for presidents – braveness, compassion, curiosity, decisiveness. Primarily based in your research, what would you say is an important?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: I believe an important factor is having a perspective that you simply actually wish to do what’s proper for the American folks. You are not making an attempt to make cash. You are not making an attempt to feather your personal nest. You are not making an attempt to fret about historical past. You are simply making an attempt to do what’s greatest for the American folks.
The qualities that I like in leaders are people who find themselves fairly clever however not geniuses. You do not have to be a genius to be an awesome president. People who find themselves prepared to hearken to different folks. Those who have some humility. Folks which might be extremely moral. These are the qualities that I believe nice leaders have in any space.
Total, we have gotten some fairly gifted individuals who have served as president of the USA. And we have been lucky. Lincoln, Washington, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, Jefferson, and modern-day presidents, Eisenhower, amongst others, have had some actually nice attributes and the nation is sweet and I believe higher off for having had good folks serve.
One in every of my issues sooner or later is that as a result of it is turn into so political in Washington typically and the combat – infighting has been so intense that I am unsure that – as many good folks wish to stand up and run for president sooner or later as we have seen previously.
MAJOR GARRETT: You talked about in your very first reply the Civil Struggle, the best time of testing in our nation’s historical past. You do not have to be very aggressive on-line to search out informal speak amongst People about one other civil conflict. They banty it about with some frequency.
How apprehensive are you about that, and do you assume the mere dialogue of it creates the potential of an inevitability?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, I believe there was discussions. Some folks say the crimson states and the blue states ought to separate, however I do not assume that is sensible or actually going to occur. I believe the nation realizes that we’re the strongest energy on the earth economically, militarily, politically, culturally and, partly, as a result of the nation’s bought a sufficiently big inhabitants, and partly as a result of now we have lots of attributes in crimson and blue states. I do not assume it is sensible. Folks discuss that, however I do not assume that is going to occur. The nation isn’t going to be break up up the way in which it was within the Civil Struggle. I simply do not see that as being sensible or fascinating.
MAJOR GARRETT: Is there any doubt in your thoughts that presidents, all presidents, should guard towards bitterness, anger, resentment, among the issues that fueled their pursuit of the workplace within the first place? Which means, as soon as they bought there they should set these issues apart, regardless that they had been a part of the engine?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: All people goes by life and has ups and downs. And also you get lots of bitterness and also you get resentment of individuals. Folks which might be good presidents in the end stand up above that. Lots of people criticized Abraham Lincoln for a lot of, many issues. They known as him all types of horrible names they usually did say he was barely human.
MAJOR GARRETT: They known as him a gorilla.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Sure. And he rose above that. And I believe you need to rise above it. And, hopefully, when you do not have to fret about politics anymore in a second time period, for instance, you’ll be able to rise above all of the issues you have had. If you’re president of the USA, in the event you carry your resentments too lengthy, it will possibly have an effect on others folks adversely. So, I believe within the case of President Trump, for instance, clearly he has some resentments, however I believe general I imagine he will rise above that in his second time period.
MAJOR GARRETT: Is Richard Nixon, which you, in your guide, describe as a tragic determine, nearly a Shakespearean-like tragic determine, essentially the most out there cautionary story about resentments within the presidency?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: If solely Shakespeare had been alive to put in writing about Richard Nixon, it might have been a beautiful tragedy. He is a person who’s actually gifted, very sensible. He stumbles from working for president in 1960, barely loses. Loses for 1962 within the governorship of California and comes again and is elected in 1968 towards all the chances.
However he resented the people who appeared down on him. He resented the liberals. He resented the ivy leaguers, as he would name them. And he actually, I believe, took these resentments and he perpetuated them by his chief of employees, Rob Haldeman and different folks. And the end result was a horrible factor known as Watergate.
I believe Richard Nixon, had he not had Watergate, I believe he would have gone down as a very spectacular president as a result of they opened to China, issues he did on the setting. However Watergate can be what he is remembered for.
MAJOR GARRETT: Was he the least moral president in our historical past?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: I do not assume there’s – that is straightforward to say as a result of some presidents had points that we do not find out about as a lot. Richard Nixon wasn’t an individual who was making an attempt to make cash for himself essentially. He wasn’t grafting himself into – into enterprise offers and so forth. However I believe he had some moral failings.
MAJOR GARRETT: The guide known as “The Highest Calling.” Is the presidency the best calling? Some would possibly argue that an age defining innovation is a better calling or being a captain of business is a better calling, or simply being a easy CEO using tens of 1000’s of individuals is a better calling. Why is it the best calling?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: The rationale I known as it “The Highest Calling,” and I had traditionally mentioned that personal fairness, my occupation, was the best calling, however that was extra tongue-in-cheek, is that this. When Woodrow Wilson went to Paris to assist finish World Struggle I, he was cheered by tons of and tons of of 1000’s of Parisians. And folks, for the primary time, realized an important individual in the USA, on the earth, actually, is the president of the USA. And that is been true nearly since Wilson got here again from Paris.
When FDR was working, the world actually successfully, as a result of he was president of the USA throughout World Struggle II, he was an important individual on the earth for positive. And I believe ever since then, due to the financial, navy, political energy of the USA, whoever is the chief of the USA is sort of definitely essentially the most highly effective individual on the earth, and pursuing what I’d name the best calling as a result of you’ll be able to have an effect on the lives of individuals a lot extra considerably as president of the USA than another job on the earth.
MAJOR GARRETT: Thanks very a lot.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: My pleasure. Thanks.
(END VT)
MAJOR GARRETT: You may watch the prolonged interview on our YouTube web page or on our web site, facethenation.com.
We’ll be proper again.
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MAJOR GARRETT: That is it for us as we speak. Thanks very a lot for watching. And let me be among the many first to want you a Comfortable New Yr. For FACE THE NATION, I am Main Garrett.
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